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Mac Osximac G4

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Mac Osximac G4

The Low End Mac Mailbag

Apple Mac OS X (10.3.5) (iBook G4) (2004). I am unable to test these because the computer they came with no longer turns on. Mac Pro (Late 2013, plus mid-2010 and mid-2012 models with recommended Metal-capable GPU) High Sierra compatibility. High Sierra arrived in September 2017 and supported the following Macs. I have a Mac OS X iMac version 10.4.11 Processor 800 MHz Power PC G4 Memory 768 MBSDRAM Serial # RM24600VMFV I want to use my Lexmark X 1150 printer, which is fairly old but not used much, with my Mac read more. Six years is a long time in the computer industry, and the question of the day is whether a machine that felt pretty speedy running Mac OS 8.1 can perform comfortably using Mac OS X. The old G3 iMacs had a 15' CRT display, relatively slow hard drives, and had a tray-loading CD-ROM mechanism.

Dan Knight - 2003.02.11 - Tip Jar

Classic Mac OS Boot Problem on OS XiMac Solved

As a follow-up to our earliercorrespondence, Tim Galvin writes:

Update: OS 9 loading. I was unable to boot [my iMac] from the OS 9.1install CD (using the C key during startup). This was after installingOS X. So I repartitioned (and erased OS X) and tried again tono avail. So I reloaded OS X into the first partition again andwas about to give up.

Then I got a wild idea. I copied the OS 9 contents from the installCD to the second partition. Then, by booting from my OS 8.6 CD (whichpresented no problem using the 'C' key during startup), I was ableperform a 'clean install' of OS 9 (it would not do a normalinstall) from the second partition into the first partition.

I assumed I killed OS X by this action, so I reinstalled OS X.However, it gave me some options to save my previous settings justprior to reloading OS X. I then reloaded OS X into the firstpartition. I upgraded OS 9 to 9.2.2 and OS X to 10.2.3 and amnow happily running both OS X and OS 9 in classic.

Strange route but good results.

Always good to hear of a success, no matter how convoluted thatpathway that led to it. Jerry Pournelle used to frequently comment inhis Byte magazine columns that troubleshooting worked best bythe persistent application of logic. It seems to have worked foryou.

Upgrading a Beige G3

Looking for upgrade advice, Marek writes:

I have a question: I recently purchased G4 DP 1 GHz through USC- nice educational deal (and it's great), but I also have G3/333 beige running OS 8.1(from 1998). It was my workstation. Now that I have the G4 to do themusic (and only music!), the G3 I am using for the Internet andMicrosoft Word and so on....

G3 has three PCI (only); one is taken by [Ultra-Wide SCSI controllerfor my] 9 GB drive!, second: sound card, and the third one by mygraphic card (I love to have two monitors). Now this is my plan: Iwould like to replace my hard drive with something like 40 GB. It wouldfree my PCI [slot], which I could use to install one with 2 FireWire/2USB (is this card okay, or should I have only FireWire or only USB on asingle PCI card?).

Now, I would like to run 9.2.2 (I love it on my G4). can it be doneon G3? Do I need to upgrade my processor?

Changing the HD, installing a PCI card and OS 9.2 wouldn't be costly- let's say $50 + $100 + $100 for about $250 (I could be wrong [nevergood on math]). I could have practically new computer! I highly valueyour opinion! For me it could be upgraded within my budget; I could runall my 9.2 applications on G3 and have my G4 committed to OS Xupgrades now, to have more PCI slots available can I upgrade a graphiccard?

As you see, there is many options to consider I am dying to find outwhat is your opinion It could help me out great deal!

Thanks a lot.

First things first. Your beige G3 has a terribly slow IDE bus forthe hard drive - 16.7 MB/sec - which is going to be a real bottleneckwhen you replace your SCSI drive with an IDE drive. Most drives you'llfind today are 2-3 times faster than the bus on the beige G3, so if youreally want to use them to their potential, you'll want to consider acard that supports Ultra66.

There goes the slot you would free by pulling the 9 GB SCSI drive andcontroller.

I've had really good luck with the Acard Ahard Ultra66 controller,which is inexpensively available from Other World Computing and othervendors (US$55 today at OWC). I'm using one in our beige G3 and reallyappreciate the improvement.

Of course, that doesn't give you the empty slot you want for aFireWire/USB card. I can see the importance of a better video card, butif you don't need the sound card (if you're using the new G4 for allyour sound work), you could have video, Ultra66, and FW/USB cards inyour beige G3.

Another alternative is the Tempo Triofrom Sonnet. This card supports up to four IDE hard drives (right upthrough the Ultra133 specification) and provides two FireWire and twoUSB ports. At US$180, it's not cheap, but it can give you both gooddrive performance and extra ports while using only a single slot.

You should have no problems at all running Mac OS 9.2 on the beige G3,but another factor is the value of these vintage computers. I'veseen them sell foras little as US$200 on the used market (slower one than yours) and alsoseen blue & white G3s selling for as little as US$300. The b&wG3 already has a faster IDE bus, has a faster system bus, includes bothUSB and FireWire, and has even more room for internal hard drives thanthe beige G3 desktop.

You might want to consider investing $300-400 in a b&w G3/350 orfaster, moving your files and PCI cards over, and selling your oldbeige G3 to a student. It could have a lower net cost than upgradingyour older computer.

Radeon 7000, a Beige G3, and OS X

Francis Gibson writes:

Love your site! I want to put an ATI Radeon 7000 in my recentlyupgraded Beige G3, but I want to use itwith OS X. Is this configuration now support?

I have read in the past that this card did not support OS X onthe Beige G3 and that ATI claimed that Apple needed to fix the problem,but that was back with 10.1. Has the Jaguar fixed this issue to yourknowledge?

To my knowledge, no. ATI recently updated their website andpackaging for the Radeon 7000 to reflect that it requires a blue &white G3 or later with Mac OS X. The card works fine with theclassic Mac OS on older hardware, but boots into a blackscreen on the beige G3 and earlier models when used withOS X.

Your best bet may be the ATI Radeon Mac Edition. According to benchmark resultspublished on Bare Feats, the older card outperforms the 7000 on sometests. This card typically closes at US$85-90 on eBaythese days.

Latest OS for PPC UpgradedCentris

Oskar Bruil wonders:

I have a Mac Centris 650 witha PPC upgrade runningat 50 MHz (twice the bus - the PPC CPU is actually a 66 MHz one). Myquestion is now that I have a PPC upgrade, what is the maximum Mac OSversion that I can run on it. I know the newest version you can runwithout a PPC upgrade is 8.1. Also, it says on your site that you needa 'fat' system for this computer, what is a 'fat' system?

A 'fat' system is one that contains the code required to boot botha 680x0 CPU and a PowerPC CPU. Without a fat system, you would never beable to run your old Centris as a 68040 machine.

I have heard reports of people running Mac OS 8.5-8.6 on PPC upgradedQuadras, but I've never worked with such a setup myself. For more helpon this, consider joining Quadlist(our email list for Centris and Quadra owners) and asking for advicefrom those who have attempted it.

Macs in Heaven?

After reading my comments in WhyApple Can User IBM's PowerPC 970, Matt Olson couldn't resistasking:

It's more promising than any vaporware G5 from Motorola, whichseems destined to ship three week's after Christ's return.

Does this mean that we will have Apple laptops and/or desktops inheaven? Thanks for a laugh-out-loud funny line. Oh, and as a Baptistpastor I hope Jesus comes back soon. It would be neat, however, ifeveryone there was issued an Apple, but ultimately I'll just be gladI'm there.

I've seen the editorial cartoon where people going to heaven areissued Macs and those going to hell get Windows PCs. We've also sharedthe story Bill Gates Goes to Heaven onour website, but we can't find any evidence - biblical or otherwise -that there will be computers in heaven, or any reason we would wantthem.

24-bit Macs?

After reading Why Apple Can UserIBM's PowerPC 970, F.C. Kuechmann notes:

In your 970 article [which I agree with] you say 'Or the wayMotorola moved from the 24-bit 68000 to the 32-bit 68020 and later.'While the original 68k only had 24 external address pins, the programcounter was, like the other registers, 32 bits. The upper 8 bits ofaddress were generally unused, but they could be accessed by xfering toa data register and writing out as data, e.g. to a latch.

Things were so much simpler in the 8-bit era, where chips has onesize. With the 8088, 68000, and later processors, there are differentregister sizes, data buses, and so forth. I was specifically thinkingof the 24-bit addressing of the 68000, which limited RAM to 16 MB.Writing 24-bit specific code was the reason some older Macs hadproblems when the Mac started using 32-bit addressing in System 7. Formore on that subject, see 32-bitAddressing on Older Macs.

More on the PowerPC 970

In response to Why Apple Can UserIBM's PowerPC 970, Tony Wight writes:

The other fellow is talking cobblers. Have a look at this pdf fromIBM: <http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE 087256C5200611780/$file/PPC970_MPF2002.pdf> (restrictedaccess).

About half way through, it explicitly states: 'Native 32-bit mode:High word of all effective addresses are cleared. 32-bit PPCapplication code supported.'

It was cited by <http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE087256C5200611780> Product Presentation - PowerPC 970: Firstin a new family of 64-bit high performance PowerPC processors.

Have a look at this in InfoWorld <http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/04/HNibmroad_1.html>.Their take is that the Power5 is the real deal for desktop computers,and that the PowerPC 970 is really just for laptops.

Frankly, until Apple gets something like these, OS X is goingremain a slug race.

best wishes,
Tony Wight.

P.S. BTW a key difference between MoTo and IBM is that Big Blue'schip production yields are consistently some 10-15x higher thanMoTo's.

Thanks for the additional information. After porting to the PPC970, imagine the power if Apple ported OS X Server to thePower5....

Apple and the PowerPC 970

Romeo writes:

The bus on the PowerPC 970 was designed by Apple itself. It istermed the Apple IO bus, or AIO for short. Thus Apple shouldn't haveproblems implementing it in future Apple motherboards. Apple andMotorola had serious disagreements on the G5 about the chip's systembus. Motorola wanted it's Rapid IO bus, while Apple wanted it's AIO buson the G5. This contributed to the end of the G5 project. Apple helpeddesign the 970, thus there shouldn't be doubt that it will turn up innew Power Macs.

Mac Os X 10.5 Imac G4

I'd heard rumors that the G5 had been put so far on the back burnerthat we might never see it. This whole Apple-IBM-Motorola consortiumsure has devolved from a mutually beneficial partnership.

Older Macs and DigitalPhotography

After reading Digital Photographyand the 68K Mac, where we recommended a Power Mac to obtain USBsupport, Ed Nilges notes:

Your article was very helpful, and the best advice was to buy a newPPC Mac. However, there does appear to be a viable way of working withdigital cameras on any Mac with a SCSI port.

Even on a modern computer, a direct USB connection to the camera isnot my preferred way of transferring pictures. I prefer to swap aCompactFlash or SmartMedia flash card into one of the very cheapreaders available, which are USB, but, if I'm on the road, I use aneven cheaper adapter to plug directly into the PC Card slot.

I started looking around for a cheap SCSI PC Card reader, and Ifound I wasn't even the first one to think of this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3401059688&category=11157

Yet another cute, dedicated use for that spare Color Classic or Mac II (impress 'em with 1987'scutting-edge monitor spanning technology).

Mac Osximac G4

Yeah, I have to agree that it's easier to use a flash memory readerthan connect the camera to the computer.

I've been looking for a cheap way to put a Compact Flash card on a MacPlus for completely quiet computing (assuming it can be used as abootable drive). I hadn't run across the Minolta CD-10 SCSI PCMCIA CardDrive before, but Steve'sDigicams speaks very highly of it. They seem to be rare on the usedmarket and sell for $100-150 on close-out when you can find them.

Steve's also notes that this is the same unit as the Microtech DPA-P,which still sells for $199.

Readers should be aware that the CD-10 doesn't accept Compact Flash,Smart Media, or other types of flash memory directly. The CD-10 acceptsa PC Card or PCMCIA card that accepts the flash memory card, so userswill also have to invest in such an adapter.

With Power Mac 5400sselling for under $50 and USB cards for $30, it may generally be lesscostly to buy a whole computer than a SCSI-to-PCMCIA adapter plus aPCMCIA-to-flash-memory adapter.

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Dan Knight has been publishing LowEnd Mac since April 1997. Mailbag columns come from email responses to his Mac Musings, Mac Daniel, Online Tech Journal, and other columns on the site.

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